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访谈实录(上)|TIM STONOR:城市如何与病毒智慧共处

发表时间:2022-09-29

今年年初,新冠疫情卷土重来,上海被迫按下暂停键长达2个月之久,我们的城市经受住了考验,但付出了巨大的经济和人力成本。 


在经济发展与疫情防控"两翼并行"的常态下,如何从本次疫情中吸取经验与教训,缓解类似突发公共事件给城市发展带来的影响与冲击,复旦大学空间规划研究中心联合复旦规划建筑设计研究院、空间规划设计研究院、城乡规划杂志社共同举办主题为“常态化疫情防控与韧性城市建设”的直播访谈活动,邀请沈振江、熊鲁霞、唐亚林、孙志强、Tim Stonor 五位专家学者,以韧性城市理念和新发传染病疫情为切入点,通过分析疫情防控对当前城市规划建设的挑战,探讨新时期城市空间规划治理的思路和方案,有针对性地提出建设韧性城市、加强疫情防控的建议。此次活动特邀搜狐城市、凤凰网、上海热线作为媒体支持。



本期特邀专家:TIM STONOR


英国空间句法公司总经理、

英国UCL大学教授



直播访谈精彩内容整理

Introduction:
简介:


My name is Tim Stonor. I’m an architect and urban planner. I’m the Managing Director of Space Syntax, a design company that has pioneered the use of digital tools in the creation of urban plans and building designs since our founding in 1989. 
我是蒂姆·斯托纳,一名建筑师和城市规划师。我是 Space Syntax 的董事总经理,Space Syntax自1989年成立以来一直率先使用数字工具来创建城市规划和建筑设计。 

Let me start by saying that I’m delighted to be asked to participate in this series of interviews.
首先我很高兴被邀请参加这一系列的采访。

People are the principal focus of our attention at Space Syntax: how they move, where they stop, sit and interact with each other, whether that’s inside buildings or in streets and public spaces. 
在 Space Syntax,人是我们关注的主要焦点,无论是在建筑物内还是在街道和公共场所,人们的行动轨迹、在哪里停下、在哪里坐下并发生怎样的互动都是我们关注的重点。 

We design the spaces that people occupy and our goal is to improve the performance of the built environment: ⁃it’s social performance ⁃it’s economic performance 
我们设计人们居住的空间,我们的目标是提高建筑环境的性能:包括社交表现、 经济效益、 环保性能。 

This is because badly designed places have costs: poor footfall in retail areas, social isolation, loneliness and obesity. 
这是因为糟糕的设计将会导致:零售区人流量少、社会孤立、孤独和肥胖。 

Whereas on the other hand well designed places help support communities, are good for business and good for our health because they encourage walking and cycling - and they’re good for the environment because they support low carbon mobility, including public transport. 
而另一方面,精心的设计有助于社会运转,有利于商业和人民的健康,因为它们鼓励人民步行和骑自行车,这对环境保护是很有好处的,包括乘坐公共交通在内都是一种低碳出行的生活方式。 

But unfortunately there are too many places that have been badly planned and badly designed , and I think this  routes they prefer. What is needed to persuade people to walk and cycle rather than drive. And professionals don’t also appreciate the consequences of their plans on health, on the environment and on the performance of business. 
但不幸的是,有太多的地方规划和设计不当,我认为这是一个普遍现象。我们需要做的是如何说服人们更多的步行和骑自行车而不是开车。专家对于这样糟糕的设计也是不欣赏,因为它们不仅不利于人民的身体健康,还对商业和环境都产生不良的影响。 

We undertake three main activities at Space Syntax: First, we do research to study how buildings and cities work; we undertake our own in-house research and we also partner extensively with university research teams 
我们在 Space Syntax 开展三项主要活动:首先,我们研究建筑物和城市的运作方式,我们不仅开展自己的内部的研究工作,还与大学研究团队广泛合作。 

Second, we then develop technologies to transfer the findings of research into practical tools for planners and designers; again, we have in-house software development team and we also undertake joint ventures with other technology companies.
其次,我们开发技术将研究成果转化为规划师和设计师的实用工具;与此同时,我们拥有内部软件开发团队,并且我们还与其他技术公司建立合资企业。 

Third, and most importantly, we use our research and our tools to design new buildings, new public spaces, new urban quarters and even entirely new cities, projects that put people first. In keeping with the theme of this interview series you could, I suppose, call these buildings of the people and cities of the people. 
第三,也是最重要的,我们使用我们的研究成果和工具来设计新建筑、新公共空间、新城区甚至整个城市,贯穿以人为本的思想。我想,根据这个系列采访的主题,你可以将这些建筑称为人民的建筑和人民的城市。 

As architects, urban designers and town planners, we lead multi-disciplinary teams and we also provide specialist input to other design teams. 
作为建筑师、城市设计师和城市规划师,我们领导着多学科团队,同时我们也为其他设计团队提供专业建议。 

We work on projects all over the world, including across China. These projects vary in scale and our clients come from both the public and private sectors. Why connects them is that they address a common set of challenges: 
我们的项目遍及世界各地,包括中国。这些项目的规模各不相同,我们的客户既有国家政府部门也有个人。将它们联系起来是因为它们解决了一系列共同的挑战: 

The first of these is the Climate Emergency: transport carbon is a huge contributor to the total carbon emissions of cities. 
其中第一个挑战是气候危机:交通的碳排放占城市碳排放总量的很大一部分。

The next key challenge is the Health Emergency: too many people are obese and poor planning is a major factor. So walkability is key to an active lifestyle and this means designing connected street networks with pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. It also means putting everyday uses closer to where people live: shops, schools, leisure and entertainment uses and, more than anything, jobs. Poor planning forces people into long commutes that damage the physical and mental health of people. 
下一个重要挑战是突发公共卫生事件:肥胖的人太多,糟糕的城市设计是一个主要的影响因素。因此,步行可达性是积极健康生活方式的关键,这意味着设计应通过步行和自行车步道接街道网络。这也意味着让日常生活更接近人们居住的地方:商店、学校、休闲和娱乐,以及最重要的工作。糟糕的城市设计会迫使人们需要长时间的通勤,从而损害人们的身心健康。 

Our third challenge is perhaps the most interesting of all: how do you make cities “buzz”? By this I mean how do you create thriving life in streets and buildings? Because, after all, this is what cities are ultimately for: we have cities because they bring people together to interact socially and economically. Cities are amazing engines for human transaction: they produce experiences, create ideas and form human relationships that develop our economies, our societies and our cultures. 
我们的第三个挑战也许是最有趣的:如何让城市“热闹”?我的意思是如何在街道和建筑物之间营造繁荣的生活?因为毕竟这就是城市建设的最终目标:我们的城市将人们聚集在一起,进行社会和经济互动。城市是人类交易的引擎:它们产生经验、创造想法并形成人际关系,从而发展我们的经济、社会和文化。 

And, perhaps most brilliantly, they create new ideas that lead to new inventions, new technologies, new businesses and business models that never existed before. They do this when they work well: 
而且,也许最出色的是,人们创造了新的想法,带来了前所未有的新发明、新技术、新业务和商业模式。一个良好的设计应: 

When they prioritise slow mobility such as walking and cycling ⁃and when they mix land uses. So the mission of Space Syntax is to create thriving life through the development, application and dissemination of tools and techniques that demonstrate how to create slow, connected and mixed use cities. 
优先考虑步行和骑自行车等系统、土地混合使用。因此,Space Syntax 的使命是通过开发、应用和传播工具和技术来创造繁荣的生活,这些工具和技术展示了如何创建慢行、连通和多功能城市。

Q1

In the Epidemic Design Diary last year (2020) you talked about some ideas and inspirations for how to deal with the outbreak. What has been the progress so far? 

在2020年的您撰写的《Pandemic Design Diary》中,您谈到了如何应对疫情的一些想法和启示。到目前为止取得了哪些进展呢?


TIM STONOR


I wrote the 《Pandemic Design Diary》 back in April 2020, when the world was turned upside down by the Coronavirus. It seemed to many people that our lives were falling apart but it occurred to me that this crisis was an opportunity to rethink some of the assumptions that have been wrongly made about how to plan cities. 

我在2020年4月写了《Pandemic Design Diary》,当时世界被突如其来的新冠肺炎疫情肆虐。在很多人看来,我们的生活面临着分崩离析,但在我看来,这场危机是一个机遇,可以重新思考城市规划当中出现的错误。 


And I identified seven kinds of design opportunity to rethink the way we plan everything from cities to building interiors - so let me briefly review them and consider the degree to which they’ve been acted on - or not. 

我确定了七种建议来重新思考规划从城市到建筑内部的详细设计,所以让我简要介绍这些建议并且就设计有何作用进行阐释。 


1. In towns & cities I first suggested that traffic speeds should be reduced to 30kph to discourage speeding on emptier streets during lockdown & to keep the air clean, the sound low & the accident rates down after the “return to work”. 

首先我建议应将交通速度降低到30公里/小时,以阻止车辆封控期间在空旷的街道上超速行驶,并且能够清洁空气、低噪音、降低“复工”后的事故发生率。 


I’m pleased to say that the UK government acted swiftly with policy and funding to encourage towns and cities to implement projects that encouraged walking and driving. Among these was a project I’ve helped to create for a 30kmh speed limit across the town of Faversham, with a population of 20,000 people. This has now been in place for over a year and is the first case of an entire town in England being covered by a 30kmh limit. 

很高兴看到的是英国政府在政策和资金方面迅速采取行动,鼓励城镇实施倡导步行和慢速车行项目。其中包括我帮助创建的一个项目,该项目是在拥有20,000人口的 Faversham 镇上设置了30公里/小时的限速。目前已经实施了一年多,是英格兰首个全城镇限速30公里/小时的城市。 


We now know from surveys that vehicle speeds have reduced across the town and that local people support these changes. And contrary to some thinking, lower speed limits do not always lead to longer journeys because slower traffic often moves more efficiently through busy junctions. 

我们现在从调查中了解到,整个城镇的车速已经降低,并且当地人支持这样的改变。也有一些和最初的预想相反的结果出现,较低的速度限制并不总是导致更长的旅程,因为较慢的车速让繁忙拥堵的交通路口变得畅通。


Now Faversham’s been a success but there haven’t been enough similar towns and villages making these sorts of changes and so the problem persists. Further funding is coming forward and change is therefore happening so I’m confident it will eventually be in place across all of the United Kingdom, as it is increasingly being implemented across the world – it’s just a question of how quickly. 

现在 Faversham 取得了成功,但没有足够多类似的城镇和村庄进行此类改变,因此问题仍然存在。更多的资金正在注入也因此发生了许多转变,因此我相信这个政策最终会在整个英国实施,因为它正在越来越多地在世界范围内实施——这只是一个时间的问题。 


So my overall takeaway is that the most successful projects were the ones that were already being planned before the Coronavirus pandemic. My advice therefore is to anticipate the next crisis - don’t just wait for it to happen! 

所以我的总体看法是,最成功的项目是那些在新冠病毒大流行之前就已经计划好的项目。因此,我的建议是预测下一次危机,不要只是等待它发生! 


2. On wide streets My second design recommendation was to widen footways to improve physical distancing in the short term and then to encourage greater pedestrian flows in the long term. In addition to this I recommended that roadways be narrowed to provide cycle lanes to support physical activity during lockdown and to encourage active commuting on the return to work. 

我的第二个设计建议是拓宽人行道以在短期内改善体验上的距离感,然后在长期内鼓励更多的行人通行。除此之外,我建议缩小机动车道宽度以提供自行车道,以支持倡导健康运动,并鼓励在重返工作岗位时健康通勤。


We saw this happening all over the world, from New York to London and from Berlin to Sydney to Auckland. 我们看到这种情况在世界各地发生,从纽约到伦敦,从柏林到悉尼再到奥克兰。 


It certainly helped to widen footways in the short term to give people confidence that there was more overall room for them to walk in – and new bike lanes have given people an alternative to using the bus or the subway. 

在短期内拓宽人行道肯定有助于让人们相信有更多的整体空间供他们行走——而且新的自行车道让人们可以选择乘坐公共汽车或地铁。 


But sadly some of this infrastructure was then removed when infection rates fell. Some administrations went back to their old ways of doing things. 

但遗憾的是,当感染率下降时,其中一些基础设施会被拆除。一些政府又回到了他们原来的做事方式。 


On the other hand, cities like Paris have used the Coronavirus epidemic to accelerate the move that was already underway towards walking and cycling, putting in extensive bike lanes and now creating a citywide speed limit of 30kmh. 

另一方面,像巴黎这样的城市,已经利用冠状病毒的流行来加快推进步行和骑自行车行动,广泛修建了自行车道,目前已将全市限速限制在 30 公里/小时。


3. In public spaces My third recommendation was to provide more shade, more seats and more WiFi in public spaces. Furthermore, to place more seats on the widened footways I just mentioned, to provide opportunities for people to answer phonecalls, to do work and to socialise outdoors where there is better ventilation than indoors. 

我的第三个建议是在公共场所提供更多的遮荫、座位和WiFi。此外,在我刚才提到的加宽的人行道上增加座位,为人们提供接听电话、工作和社交的机会,因为户外通风比室内好。


And this is certainly something that we’ve seen happen, with the space between buildings becoming increasingly normal for business meetings. And I think we’ll see much more of it in the future because people have realised now that it may not only be safer to be outside but it may also be much more pleasurable. The office of the future is outside the building as well as inside it. 

这些都是我们可以见到的,建筑物之间的空间越来越适合商务会议。而且我认为我们将来会看到更多,因为人们现在已经意识到,在外面可能不仅更安全,而且还可能更令人心情愉快。未来的办公场所既是在大楼外面也在里面。 


4. In shops My fourth recommendation was for shopkeepers to focus on customer experience: to have more space for interacting with the objects that customers are thinking of buying, as well as for them being physically distant from each other. To have more space, for example, to try on clothing and more staff to support customer interactions. More space to let people make calls and do work – in other words to have more hybrid work/leisure experiences. 

我的第四个建议是让店主专注于客户体验:在客户购买物品时,创造更多的空间让客户进行挑选,同时有足够的空间让顾客之间保持距离。拥有更多空间,例如在试穿服装时,较大的场所空间可以容纳店员前来协助客户进行试穿。同时宽敞的空间也便于人们打电话,处理工作,换言之,即有更多的工作与休闲的混合体验。


And then to have less space for stock - for storage - because, increasingly, storage is happening offsite and, in addition, delivery can be done directly from warehouse to house without people having to carry purchases along with them. 

然后是减少存储空间,将越来越多的存储空间安排在异地。此外,可以设置从仓库到门厅进行无障碍交付,这也就意味着而无需人们随身携带购买的物品。 


To date I don’t think we’ve seen this happen as much as I might have anticipated because I think shops are still recovering from being closed, being opened, being closed again and then when they are open they’re perhaps still using their old business models. My expectation is that the shift will continue to be gradual as new technologies come along that, for example, will make it easier to try clothes on using augmented and virtual realities. 

迄今为止,我认为没有像我预期的那样看到这种情况发生,因为商店仍在从关闭、开业、再次关闭中恢复过来,当它们开业时,他们可能仍在使用他们旧的商业模式。我的预期是,随着新技术的出现,这种转变将是渐进的,例如,使用增强现实和虚拟现实试穿衣服会变得更容易。 


5. In offices In offices, my fifth recommendation is certainly one where we have seen significant change in the last two years and this was to improve the design of office spaces, knowing that, with people working from home and enjoying all the comforts of home working – including technology that is often better than that found at work – then the office and the design of offices needs to step up to compete with working from home. 

我的第五个建议为改善办公空间的设计,这是我们在过去两年中看到的变化最多的。因为居家办公能够拥有比办公室更舒适的工作环境,不限于技术方面,因此仍需加强办公室设计才能与居家办公相媲美。 


As part of this, I suggested that designers focus on creating space for informal interaction and for team-based activities, rather than individual working, because since so many meetings have moved to the cloud – to online - most solo, task-based activities can be done outside or from home. 

作为其中的一部分,我建议设计师在空间设计过程中应更加专注于为非正式互动和团队活动创造空间,而不是局限于个人工作。因为当下很多会议已经转移到云端、线上,大多数简单的基础工作可以在室外或家中完成。 


I encouraged designers to question every square centimetre of their designs, so that everywhere space in the office can serve at least two functions and so that any surplus space might then be sublet to other organisations. 

我鼓励设计师仔细推敲他们所设计的每一平方厘米,以便每一个办公空间都可以至少提供两种功能,并且富余闲置空间可转租其他公司。


I recommended that businesses even encourage staff members to bring in their dogs and cats in order to recreate the seemingly informal “random” distractions that occur at home. We’ve become used to these interruptions and many people have found that they help with their alertness, with their creativity and with their online relations with other people. 

我甚至建议企业鼓励员工带上他们的狗和猫上班,以重现在家中发生的看似非正式的“随机”干扰。我们已经习惯了这些干扰,许多人发现它们有助于提高他们的警觉性、创造力以及与他人的互动。 


6. At home My sixth recommendation was focused on the home and this was to create webcam-friendly backdrops and microphone-friendly soft surfaces, not only for lockdown but for the long run because home is now an office and a it’s now a broadcast studio. It’s also a school. It’s a gym. 

我的第六条建议侧重于家庭,创建适合网络摄像头的背景和适合麦克风的软质表皮,不仅是基于当下,而且从长远来看,家现在不仅是办公室更是一个多媒体工作室。同时也是一所学校,一个健身房。 


And I suggested that these features should be designed in to new homes and used as selling features because purchasers will expect them. 

我建议这些功能应该设计到新房中并可以作为销售卖点,因为购买者会对这些功能有所期待。 


And we can now see this happening. In almost every sales brochure I look at for new homes, our apartments and houses are being sold not only as places of shelter with our families but as proper workplaces. 

我们现在可以看到这种情况正在发生。在我查看的几乎每本新房销售手册中,公寓和住宅不仅被出售作为人们家庭休息的地方,而且被出售作为工作场所。 


7. Finally, my seventh design recommendation was that places should be provided everywhere – in buildings and in public space - where people can be with others: places where they can be simultaneously ‘spatial’ and ‘transpatial’. 

最后,我的第七个设计建议是,应该在包括建筑物和公共空间的任意场所提供人与人之间互动的场所:以便人们可以同时进行同空间和跨空间的交流。


And we’re definitely seeing this, especially in offices, where small pods are now normal – small rooms where people can go online for meetings that were not at all common two years ago. 

我们意识到是在办公场所,目前小隔间很常见,人们可以通过网络进行联系,而这在两年前根本不常见。


We’re also seeing this in public space – people participating in often multi-person online meetings – where you can see from their phone screens that they are in a work meeting, even though they may be sat in the park. 

我们经常在公共场所看到,人们经常参加多人在线会议,你可以从他们的手机屏幕上看到他们正在参加工作会议,即使他们可能坐在公园里。 


We’ve therefore seen many new human behaviours being provoked by the coronavirus. And we’ve seen a variety of new, sometimes sophisticated responses being made by designers to meet people’s basic needs. And these basic needs are to be with others, to learn from them, to surprise eachother by discovering new ideas and to create together to form the future. 

因此,我们看到新冠病毒引发了许多人类的新行为。我们已经看到设计师们为满足人们的基本需求做出了各种新的、甚至是复杂的设计。这些想法是为了更好的和他人相处,向他人学习,通过发现新想法来给彼此惊喜,共同创造未来。 


And so I’m increasingly confident that - as I predicted when I wrote the Pandemic Design Diary in April 2020 - we will not go back. People will only continue to adapt to new ways of living. And therefore our roles as urban planners, architects & interior designers, will continue to be to observe, to react, to experiment, to assess, to respond and to innovate. And that, if we do so, we will properly be supporting patterns of thriving life in our buildings and in our cities. 

所以我越来越有信心,正如我在2020年4月写《Pandemic Design Diary》时所预测的那样,我们不会回头。人们只会继续适应新的生活方式。因此,我们作为城市规划师、建筑师和室内设计师的角色将继续观察、反应、实验、评估、响应和创新。只有这样我们才能更好的支持人们城市中追求更美好的生活模式。


(未完待续)



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